Free Muni or other hotspot access from a sailboat?? - Page 5

  Hi, John, and good luck on your race.  I could probably figure out
which it was, as long as it is, but for now I'll just wish you the
best.

Below I just try to clarify some frustrations for you; I'll do the full
testing you refer to later...



Hm.  As they are toggle-able between the two, should I flash both units
with both sets of firmware?

Meanwhile, I'm nearly certain they have the most current firmware, but
I'll do it again.  (after the tests process).


I mean that they never performed as specified.  They "work" in that I
can interrogate them in web interface form, all the way to the point
where I sat the static-dhcp choice to dhcp.  I mentioned not
reinstalling them in the nema just to point out that if that had any
impact, it wasn't a factor.  It's about the smallest possible footprint
for the two units - the one on the left in the URL I provided - but I
don't like the thin neoprene or whatever gasket and a big flat surface
with only 6 screws, which seems to me to be an invitation to water
intrusion over time.  I'd much rather an o-ring or similar with tongue
and groove sealing, along with a shoebox lid rather than pancake shape
for better rigidity...

clip

Heh.  Particularly in the case of this vendor.  I'll do the separate
flashings - but as Senao makes a big deal about these being able to
flip from one format to the other, I can't understand how they expect
to do that if the units can't hold both sets of firmware...


I tested both units as wired bridge (remember the toggle bit); neither
would pass data, but otherwise (in factory default setting) would talk
to my NIC in all of the configuration screens.  So the answer is both
of them.  Since I wasn't able to make (ei)the(r) bridge work, I never
went beyond that in my recent, last-ditch effort which was willing to
at least try going with an ethernet direct connection (where I'd before
been only willing to have a wireless solution).


If you really want the gory details, I'll post them.  I have all the
steps I did in this last test, as part of my documentation in the
return request with Discover. But it's just working through all the
different possibilities in the setup screens, and having it stop
communicating with me when I went from static to dhcp mode, regardless
of whatever other possibilities had been set.


No (tearing my hair out, which is *really* difficult since I have it
cut to about 1/8", as I have to have tried that over 100 times in every
possible configuration).  Client bridge would associate with a
specified SSID if I set it up that way - but would not pass data.

*EVERY* time, regardless of settings, regardless of IP and subnet
twiddling to try to isolate from any computer internal settings which
might offend it, after I'd individually set up the AP unit and the
bridge unit (via url on my NIC), when I connected the two, IP error
messages would abound, and no further communication happened.

The vendor's solution to that problem was to demand I engage a
Microsoft Certified Network Professional to resolve the IP conflicts in
my computer (despite this happening on computer any I've tried it
on)...


Sorry I'm not being adequately clear.  I just meant that my IP and
subnets matched between NIC and bridge, and whether I had the NIC on
specific IP or dhcp, it still would not pass data (browse or mail,
tracert, ping, etc.). And when I set my NIC to dhcp, I could no longer
interrogate my 192.etc bridge. When I set the bridge (in the setup
screens) to dhcp, all communication stopped.  Either required a
button-push reset to factory default to start the process over again.


Will do, and report, step by step.


Well, if that *would* have worked, I'm beginning to believe that a
voltage difference is easier to resolve than an IP conflict problem
:{/)


Thanks.  I'll do that.  Enjoy your race!

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig   KI4MPC
http://tinyurl.com/p7rb4  - NOTE:new URL! The vessel as Tehamana, as we
bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover."   - Mark Twain

 On 23 Jun 2006 07:44:56 -0700, "Skip - Working on the boat"


Thanks.  It was the South Tower race from the Stockton Sailing Club to
the south tower of the Golden Gate (actually YRA 16/Blackaller) and
back.  We did well upwind, 2nd overall, but fell into a wind hole on the
way back and had to anchor against the tide, which cost us a fatal 2-1/2
hours.  Still, it was a great sail.  The boat was "Infinity" (Holland 47
IOR).  Picture at <http://i5.tinypic.com/160ew3n.jpg> .


Great.


"toggle-able" how?


My understanding is that there are two different firmware loads, one for
client bridge mode (not router mode, not access point mode), and another
for access point mode.


Let's not rush ahead.  Can you verify that the client bridge unit (let's
call it Senao #1) shows a valid Wi-Fi connection to an external access
point (e.g., hotspot)?  And what do you mean by "static-dhcp"?  (Please
stick to industry-standard terminology.)  Is that really manual IP
assignment in your computer, or are you using a DHCP server in either
Senao (which you shouldn't be doing!)?

Worry about getting Senao #2 (access point) working *after* Senao #1
(client bridge) is working properly -- until you get Senao #1 working,
bypass/disconnect Senao #2 and connect your computer directly to Senao
#1.


Let's worry about that later.  You could always seal the box with
silicone.


For troubleshooting you just want computer connected directly to Senao
#1 as a client bridge.  


No, I want to start over from the beginning, and just focus on Senao #1.


Only relevant for configuration!  Otherwise the Senao LAN (not WAN) IP
address is irrelevant, since it's a *bridge*, not a router.  Your
computer needs to have an (a) IP + (b) subnet mask + (c) gateway address
+ (d) DNS servers assigned by the remote Wi-Fi service, usually by DHCP.
All the Senao will do in client bridge mode is pass that DHCP setup
traffic back and forth.


How do you know the "specific IP"?  Again, the IP of the Senao is
irrelevant!


Of course not, because it then won't be on the same subnet!  But if DHCP
is working (from the remote Wi-Fi service), then the Senao *is* working!


No (repeat no) DHCP in the Senao!


The voltage probably isn't an issue -- most consumer gear will operate
from a wide range of voltage.

--
Best regards,   FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas      FAQ for Wi-Fi:  <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
           Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_How_To>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:  <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

  Hi, John,

Hope your race was successful - I know you probably don't like coming
in anything other than first - my last race we won very handily, having
nailed the start and pulled away for all the rest of it...

I have two units.  For clarity, even though either can be a Bridge or
Access Point by toggling, we're testing just the bridge part.  For
further clarity, I'm identifying them as unit 1 and unit 2 (1,2 below).
 And just for additional clarity, I'm also testing both the 8.5dBi
stick and the 5.5dBi duck (stick, duck below).  These are the steps you
wanted me to take:

1, stick:

Done.


Per your later instructions, waiting on that step  -  See also below re
firmware number.



Here's how I did it, via URL interface following login:

Configuration screen 1 (the system screen) showed info only -

AP information:

Connected to SSID:  non-spec

Using channel:  12

MAC address of Access Point:  444444444444

Current transmission rate (Mbits/s):  2

Current communications quality (%):  0

Bridge information:  MAC address of the Bridge:  00026F37D250

Current IP address:  192.168.1.1

Bridge firmware:  2.0.0WLAN

Primary firmware:  1.1.1WLAN

Secondary firmware:  1.8.0


Results of the most recent scan

SSID MAC address Channel Signal
strength (%) Mode

That (2.0) is the most recent firmware so I should not have to flash
again...

Screen 2 (wireless) had lots of options but I selected only two: point
to multipoint - the factory default (vs P-P) and "any" (no specific
SSID) instead of the "wireless" which was default.  Others were left to
factory default or empty



Screen 3 (station) Stations Information about the stations that are
being bridged. NOTE: You may have to re-load this page to see the
current settings.



The bridge table

IP Address MAC address
192.168.1.2 0090F53FA36F

this mac does not match any that my antenna which I've been using (a
Hawking USB) sees.  Checking further I see that it is the address I've
specified in my prior trials for my NIC.  It's also the IP I've given
the NIC.


Screen 4 (admin) - IP Address Mode:  Static  DHCP Default IP address:
Default subnet mask:  Default gateway:  Device name:  (This is
optional)



I configured to static, 192..1, 255.255.255.0 default 0.0.0.0, device
name blank

so far, so good.


This is where I've always derailed.  But, setting the nic to dhcp:


C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /release

Windows IP Configuration


Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>


IPCONFIG /renew led to a black screen, blinking cursor, no action.

Trying IPCONFIG /all for some clues, as that's what has happened every
other time, too:

C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : NavigationLaptop
        Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8169/8110 Family
Gigabit
Ethernet NIC
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-90-F5-3F-A3-6F
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
        DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255

C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>

Of course, trying, now, to address the unit led to :

Unable to connect

Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at 192.168.1.1.


    *   The site could be temporarily unavailable or too busy. Try
again in a few
          moments.

    *   If you are unable to load any pages, check your computer's
network
          connection.

    *   If your computer or network is protected by a firewall or
proxy, make sure
          that Firefox is permitted to access the Web.

So, no joy there.  Going back up to change the variables in screens
after first restoring my NIC to IP/subnets.

Changing screen 2 to Point-Point (not P-MP) and restoring "wireless" as
the SSID, I try again:

Information

Information about the bridge. NOTE: You may have to re-load this page
to see the current settings.


  AP information:  Connected to SSID:  wireless

Using channel:  6

MAC address of Access Point:  02023D18D250

Current transmission rate (Mbits/s):  11

Current communications quality (%):  0

Bridge information:  MAC address of the Bridge:  00026F37D250

Current IP address:  192.168.1.1

Bridge firmware:  2.0.0

WLAN Primary firmware:  1.1.1

WLAN Secondary firmware:  1.8.0


Results of the most recent scan

SSID MAC address Channel Signal
strength (%) Mode

 once again running through the list of MACs the Hawking sees reveals
that "wireless" is the AP with the 100% strength (not surprising - it's
5 feet away with a .2w amp!) on 02023D18D250  However, as this is a
bridge, my hawking (right next to the stick antenna) is seeing it.
Doublechecking the information screens confirm that this unit is in
Bridge mode, not AP - yet it's putting out AP info (??)

Repeating the release/renew/all after going to dhcp in the NIC:

C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /release

Windows IP Configuration

IP Address for adapter Local Area Connection 3 has already been
released.

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

Ethernet adapter Wireless Network Connection 25:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>


C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /renew
^C
C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>
C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>
C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>^X

Another hangup - no response, so I bail out.

C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : NavigationLaptop
        Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8169/8110 Family
Gigabit
Ethernet NIC
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-90-F5-3F-A3-6F
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration IP Address. . . : 169.254.98.126
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>

And, of course, 169 won't do us any good.

going back to defined so I can change another potential parameter in
the screens:

returned to P-MP, I again undo the nic IP and go to dhcp for the
ipconfig:

C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /release

Windows IP Configuration

IP Address for adapter Local Area Connection 3 has already been
released.

C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>


C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /renew
^C
C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>
C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>
C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>
C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>^X

Same no-result on dhcp

C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : NavigationLaptop
        Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8169/8110 Family
Gigabit
Ethernet NIC
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-90-F5-3F-A3-6F
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration IP Address. . . : 169.254.98.126
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>

and same result on all the rest as well.

And, just for the hell of it, with the IP reset on the NIC, this:




C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /release

Windows IP Configuration

The operation failed as no adapter is in the state permissible for
this operation.

C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /renew

Windows IP Configuration

The operation failed as no adapter is in the state permissible for
this operation.

C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : NavigationLaptop
        Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8169/8110 Family
Gigabit
Ethernet NIC
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-90-F5-3F-A3-6F
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.2
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

C:\DOCUME~1\REGIST~1.YOU>

As long as this single one is, I'm reluctant to inflict the other unit
on you in the same fashion.  I also didn't bother to try both antennas
as it doesn't want to work in the most basic fashion, so trying to find
a station wont show us anything...

In case I've missed something, or done something in a fashion which is
counterproductive, I'll leave off here until you've reviewed it.

Thanks.



L8R


Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig   KI4MPC
http://tinyurl.com/p7rb4  - NOTE:new URL! The vessel as Tehamana, as we
bought her

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely
nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing,
messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter.  Nothing seems really to matter,
that's the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never
get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to
do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

 PS

Since I was still stoked at midnight, I played with the other
unit,still with the 8.5dBi stick.  It worked better than the first, in
that I could actually scan and see the various APs out there.

If I set the preference to "any" (no specific SSID) it associated with
one of the pay services in the area.  Curiously, that wasn't the most
powerful one of the pay services as rated by the strength listings -
and it consistently did that despite many changes of specified and
unspecified SSID.

When I set it to the one I'm using now (powered by the Hawking up on
deck connected with active USB cable), "sailing router", it associated
with that, and showed no other stations in the scan listings.

However, no changes occurred in my other tests attempting to get it to
pass data, would not renew, either in the command line interface or the
windoze "repair" function (that one eventually leading to the failure
message, rather than my interrupting it as I did the command line
interface) and otherwise looked just like the ones in the prior message
so I didn't duplicate them here.  Because I could see the stations
clearly on this bridge/ap unit (set as bridge - I've not toggled
between bridge and AP for many months as I've not yet made the bridge
work) with the stick, I didn't bother to try the duck.

This is not encouraging for these units - and I'm getting the runaround
by Discovercard.  I'd sure rather send them back and start over, given
the history.  That two of them should fail in the same fashion makes me
wonder about the suitability for the purpose.

Oh, and another curiosity:  Just for grins, I reinstalled the USB
antenna while the bridge was still up.  Like the first unit, it
broadcast "sailing router" as an AP, and I associated with it at 100%
in ad hoc mode.  Whether I could actually control it over wifi I didn't
test as I couldn't get it do deliver data in the wired mode...

L8R

Skip, back to other boat work more related to getting this boat wet
after more than a year of screwing with the wifi

 I have been following your posts rather loosely and see no one seems to
be coming to your rescue, so here are my two bits.

I wouldn't expect much from Engenius, nor the dealer (does it begin with
k?). You are not the first to complain about Engenius' poor support.
Even worse for no support is the company that makes their stuff-Senao.
Support and warranty is very important with these products as many of
them are so questionable. A websearch will also show other complaints
about your radio and other senao products not working.

I am not exactly certain all of the equipment your using, but are you
using a firewall in any of this and did you disable it when trying to
"pass data"? Also you can turn on the firewall packet log functions of
that firewall for the dhcp and other calls and learn alot about what is
happening by examining that log.

I have had experiences similar to yours and found that it often boils
down to not having a strong enough signal and/or antenna, or there is a
source of interference somewhere. Still the firmware/configuration
software of many of these products leaves alot to be desired.

When posting your troubleshooting try to be more exact in your language
and leave out any fluff and wireless jargon, just the facts mam. I find
it hard to figure out exactly what you're saying sometimes.